The Nest

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Rae Dawson: Thanks for tuning into the Nest, a podcast by the Martlet, the University of Victoria's independent newspaper. Settle in as we talk with UVic and Greater Victoria community members about what they're doing, why they're doing it, and how you can get involved. The Nest is produced in the studios of 101.9 FM CFUV radio, on the unceded lands of the Lekwungen peoples and the Songhees, Esquimalt and W̱SÁNEĆ peoples, whose relationship with the land continues to this day.

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Rae Dawson: Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Nest. My name is Rae Dawson. I'm the operations manager over at the Martlet, and I am honoured to be joined today by the mayor of Saanich, Dean Murdock. Dean Murdock is the mayor of Saanich and prior to that, he served three terms on Saanich Council. He worked for the Provincial Government at the Ministries of Health and Transportation and Infrastructure and was an instructor of political science at Camosun College. He grew up in Saanich, attended high school at Claremont Secondary, and is a UVic grad himself! Dean, thank you so much for being here. Welcome to the Nest.

Dean Murdock: Thanks so much for having me.

Rae Dawson: So to start off — as the mayor of Saanich, what does your day-to-day tasks look like? I mean, we hear about a mayor, you hear about the elections, but what does it actually mean to be the mayor of Saanich?

Dean Murdock: Yeah. I think it's a great question, because I think a lot of people don't have any idea what the mayor does, and for good reason. It's a fascinating role, which is kind of a combination of being the figurehead for the district. So, there's lots of photo ops and ribbon cutting as part of the job. But you're also the political head of the organization and have to work with a council in order to move things through. There are nine members of council, including myself. Eight councilors and the mayor. We all have to work together to make decisions. And so, while on the one hand, I have to be Saanich’s representative and public face, the other part of the role is being that political quarterback and trying to call the shots so that we can call the plays — now I'm mixing metaphors — call the plays, exposing myself as a non-sports fan.

Rae Dawson: *laughter* Yes.

Dean Murdock: Calling the plays for council so that we can try and move things through. We've got lots of really important work that we're trying to accomplish and a big part of that role is making sure I've got at least four other members of council who are going to support the direction we're headed in.

Rae Dawson: So what I'm hearing is it's a big group project.

Dean Murdock: It is a group project. Yeah. I mean, you know, I think people have an idea that the mayor is what they call “the strong mayor,” which is what they have in communities like Chicago and Los Angeles, and New York, where the mayor really has their own set of responsibilities and [is] kind of like a mini-governor.

That's not true in Canada. The mayor is one of nine, and gets to be the spokesperson for council and the district. But really, anything you want to achieve? It's a group effort. And you got to make sure that you've got everybody working together.

Rae Dawson: Absolutely. Well, I guess that's why group projects are important in university.

Dean Murdock: Yes. Definitely a good training ground for sure. *laughter*

Rae Dawson: Yeah. That's what they don't tell you. Well, awesome. I'm so curious, why did you decide to get involved in municipal government?

Dean Murdock: Yeah, I have always been fascinated about how we organize ourselves, how communities get things done. Even some of the boring stuff, like the infrastructure that's below the ground that serves us all with drinking water and storm and wastewater, all of that stuff requires an immense apparatus in order to support.

And even as a young person, as a kid, early teens, I was so interested in how we put all of those things together to really support each other and thrive as a community. And, of course, you know, politics has been a big part of my whole life. My parents both worked union jobs, were both very political. Politics was very much a part of daily conversations in my household. And so by the time — you know, you won't be surprised to know I was the president of my student council in high school at Claremont. In those days, we called it the Prime Minister. You know, I always had a political inclination and an interest, and was eager to study political science.

I now have a master's in political science, which I got here at UVic. I see politics as a way to make things happen and I've always been really intrigued by how, as elected officials, we can try and make things better for people. I've taken that seriously for the better part of 20 years, in and out of politics. It's something that I — I love this community. I love giving it my time and energy. Because I think ultimately it makes us all better off.

Rae Dawson: This is a little bit of a side question, but I’m so curious — what did you do your dissertation on in your masters?

Dean Murdock: Oh, you and my thesis committee, and maybe my mom, are the only ones who would be interested in the answer to this question. *laughter*

I, at the time — this is now going back well over 15 years. The intergovernmental relations in health policy development was the subject area. Now, I can see the people just immediately shutting down as I begin to get into the details. There was a royal commission headed by Roy Romanow that looked into the future of health care in Canada, made a number of recommendations, 48 recommendations, most of which were going to require federal-provincial-territorial collaboration. My thesis question was how successful was Romanow in influencing health policy development? And it was a case study that looked at the general history of royal commissions, their success rate in having their recommendations implemented, and how Romanow compared to them. And then doing a bit of prognosticating about what might happen in the future, and what happened after my thesis was finished was the development of a national pharmacare program, which Romanow actually called for. But it took nearly 15 years in order to get there.

Rae Dawson: Yeah, absolutely. And boring — but such an important service that is so lifesaving for so many people.

Dean Murdock: Music to my ears to hear you say that, because you're absolutely right. It's not something most people would dedicate themselves to figuring out the details of, but so critical to the health and well-being of folks in our country.

Rae Dawson: It's unfortunate, but admin really does make the world go round. *laughter*

Dean Murdock: It truly does.

Rae Dawson: Amazing, thank you. Can you please give me a brief overview of the Shelbourne Valley and Quadra McKenzie plans, which is really what we're here to talk about today.

Dean Murdock: Oh, this is why you wanted me to come in? Not just about my thesis, or what flavour of coffee I like?

Rae Dawson: *laughter* Yeah, unfortunately. Well, we can get to coffee questions later. No worries.

Dean Murdock: Okay. Perfect, perfect.

Rae Dawson: But, yeah, that's what we're here to chat about today. I'm so curious what needs these plans are meant to address?

Dean Murdock: Yeah. So, the Shelbourne Valley plan is actually an update to a plan that was finished about a decade ago. It was a long planning process that was really the first of its kind, where Saanich took an entire corridor and all of the neighborhoods around it along Shelbourne, and went through a pretty extensive consultative process with stakeholders, community members, BC transit, housing providers, to determine what the future of this area is going to look like. How do we make it more walkable, more accessible? How do we ensure that people can get around in this very busy part of the community? So improving the streetscape, accelerating more frequent transit service. And then, how we are going to build up around our centers? You know, there are a number of strip malls along Shelbourne that are really at a period in their history where they could go through some redevelopment. How do we transition those into more mixed use, so it's higher density rental apartments, along with those commercial services on the main floor? And, since that plan was written, you're seeing that happen at University Heights and the shopping center across the street from University Heights.

We're now in a phase where we're updating that plan, going through public consultation to see if the the aims from ten years ago still align with our objectives today, updating it to reflect new provincial requirements in terms of the development of housing and making sure that we're finding room and identifying places where we would build more homes. And not just more market homes that will be sold — you know, single family homes that would go for over a million bucks — but looking at a range of housing types that meet people's needs and budgets. That includes affordable, non-market housing, where BC Housing provides a subsidy to ensure that people pay what they can afford to live there.

That's so crucial for our long term success as a community that everyone is able to find a home. Even people who are working professionals earning a really good income struggle to find a place to live in our community. And so we're doing the planning work now to make sure we are prepared to create a range of housing types in our community, and close to the services that people rely on. I think what's so crucial about this is that people will be walking or biking distance to shopping, schools, parks, amenities, good quality public transit. All of the things that are necessities of life in order to really put down roots and thrive in our community, and so making sure that all of those things are included as part of the planning process. And that way, as we make decisions about future land use, they're supporting all of those things so that it's not just the house, but people who can actually build a life here and have the services and amenities they rely on in order to be successful.

Rae Dawson: Absolutely. I mean, as you said, housing struggles is something so familiar to students. I know the first year that I was renting in Victoria, I had to move six times, just because of so much tomfoolery that happened. So to hear that you guys are specifically thinking of creating affordable housing is so encouraging.

Why should students care about these plans? I mean, we've touched on a little bit with renting prices, but how will it impact student life beyond just providing more housing?

Dean Murdock: It's so important that students, young people in our community, and folks who want to settle in our community get involved in these processes, because so often municipal government is the domain of older adults, folks who are close to retirement age or who are retired. Those are primarily people who historically have participated in elections and have an interest and involvement in local government. But our decisions have long term consequences. So things that we're deciding today will still be here 30 or 40 years from now. And so it's so crucial that people have an opportunity to get involved at an early stage in their life when they're going to school, when they're starting out in their careers, because they too want to be able to build a life here.

And I think if we're not inviting and hearing those voices from people who are looking to to put down roots in our community, or looking for a place to stay in our community, our planning efforts are going to completely miss those folks and this won't be a community for them until they're reaching that near retirement age, and we can't sustain a community like that. We need to ensure that people at all stages of life are able to put down roots here, that they can contribute to the community, that they can go into working careers and start a family and send their kids to school, and really build up a network of friends and family around them.

We'll miss that if those folks are not included in this process. So, I so strongly encourage students, young people, folks under 30 to get involved in the process, because I know it doesn't appeal, it doesn't have the same urgency that you might see with other levels of government. But this is so crucial to, to our way of life and how we can all be successful in communities like Saanich on the South Island.

Rae Dawson: Absolutely. Yeah, I feel like Victoria has such a reputation for being a sleepy retiree city, but that could not be more the opposite from my experience of Victoria. There's such a thriving youth culture here, a lot of young people, and I think more and more I'm seeing young people instead of wanting to leave, wanting to stay, wanting to invest in their community. So to hear that that's on your guys' mind is so awesome.

Dean Murdock: Well, and I hear so often from young adults, students, people who are early in their careers who are looking to start a family, that they love this place, they love the culture here, they love the community that's here. But they can't find a place where they can build a life, where they know they'll be here for the long term. And and that's a major disservice to them, to the people who love them, who want them to be here, and to our future success. I mean, those are our folks who are going to be in the industries that we rely on in order to support our way of life. Doctors, lawyers, nurses, working professionals, who will otherwise have to move somewhere else. And that's a huge loss to the South Island.

Rae Dawson: Yeah. 100 per cent. I'm sure that it hasn't all been rainbows and butterflies, your journey thus far.

Dean Murdock: *laughter* Not quite.

Rae Dawson: Not quite. Close, but not quite. I'm curious what criticism you have faced, and how you have pivoted in response to public feedback?

Dean Murdock: Yeah, it. We're living through fascinating times. There's a lot of tension, I think very vocal frustration, and fear, with a lot of what's going on in our world right now. And that's not unique to Saanich or the Capital Region, that's happening all over Canada, probably happening in a lot of parts of the world. Certainly we're seeing it happen south of the border, I think the spillover effects are that we hear a lot of vocal opposition to some of the planning work that we're doing, changes that we're making now, that help ensure future success for our community.

I get why people are surprised and maybe concerned about what change looks like, it's happening quickly. And I think part of my role as the mayor and spokesperson for council and Saanich, to try and raise awareness about why we're doing this work. It's not meant to displace anybody. We're not trying to take anybody's home away from them. If you built a life here 20, 30, 40 years ago, loved the neighborhood where you live, you can continue to live there and enjoy it, and I hope that you do. But we also want to make sure that there's a place for that person's kids, and maybe their grandkids, to be able to do the same thing and enjoy all of the rich benefits of living in such a beautiful part of the world. And I think that is where our aspirations to grow as a community collides with a changing reality for folks who have become comfortable with the certainty of what life in their neighborhood looks like.

So, you know, I want to be clear — no one's going to be displaced. We're not taking over single family homes. There is an organization that has dedicated a lot of its time — it's now declared itself as an electoral organization, but it formed in order to oppose a lot of the planning work that's underway, and spreading misinformation and disinformation to stoke fears. You know, “Saanich is coming to bulldoze your home to make room for a high rise.” I mean, nothing could be further from the truth. Saanich doesn't have the power or or the budget to do that kind of stuff. But, you know, it plays into those fears that people have about what change means for them, the risk to the life that they enjoy. And it's been a lot of work to try and push back and say that's not actually what's going on here. This is about making sure that everyone can find a home, that everybody can rely on services in our community and be able to get around efficiently and conveniently and safely in our community.

That is certainly the biggest point of contention in the work that we're doing right now. And I'm hopeful that the more people who get involved in this process, the more we can reflect that there are a lot of long term interest in the success of this community, and we need to ensure we're planning appropriately for their needs too.

Rae Dawson: Absolutely, yeah. I mean, in the last episode that I recorded with Lauren, who's from the Office of Indigenous Academic and Community Engagement, we talked a lot about the importance of intergenerational community and how impactful that is. And from what I'm hearing, there seems to be a lot of fear around change, which is so human.

Dean Murdock: Of course it is.

Rae Dawson: So normal, so natural. But also this comment of how can we make our community accessible to not just people who are maybe making six figures, or have been here for 30 plus years? What does that growth look like? And yeah, I can imagine you're definitely getting the pushback from that.

But it's unfortunate to hear that there's so much misinformation being spread as well, that's pushing from fear of change to fear-mongering which is definitely not ideal.

Dean Murdock: I think that's exactly right. You know, exploiting people's fears about what change looks like and whipping them up into anger. And that's a lot of what's now showing up in the council chamber. It's not just concern, it's anger. And when it's based on a lot of misinformation, people coming to their door and saying, “Did you know they're coming to take your home away from you?”

That's really concerning. And as an elected official, it makes it very challenging to try and govern in an environment where your intentions are viewed with not only suspicion, but that there's an assumption of wrongdoing. That somehow, I'm doing these things to advance the interests of a property developer. When in fact, I have no interest in whether or not a property developer makes money. It's about trying to create homes in our community and ensuring that everybody can find a place to live. If we could bring the volume down and the temperature down, I think we can have a really good conversation as a community about how we balance those interests between people who've lived here a long time and love their way of life, and new folks who want to be able to find a home here and enjoy that same way of life. I think we can bridge that gap, but it's not helped by stoking fears with misinformation.

Rae Dawson: Yeah. One of the things I love about municipal government, and I'm definitely skipping a little bit ahead in my questions here, but is — municipal government, it impacts your everyday life, the things you see every day. And yet it's typically the government we pay the least attention to, unless we're really angry about something.

I'm really curious what your guys' process to meet those really angry people who do come in and are concerned. What does that process look like of being like — okay, I hear you, and also, here's the facts, here's the things we're doing.

Dean Murdock: Yeah. It's — part of the challenge is trying to bring people down from that aggression, from that anger. We've got a lot of open houses and drop in sessions, pop ups where we've got our staff available to answer questions, address some of that misinformation. I hear regularly from our staff and from residents in the community that when they had the chance to talk about some of the things that were concerning, they found out that that's not actually what's going on, or that the version of events that they'd been told actually is not what the plan includes. And that is a way to try and disarm, to try and de-escalate some of that conflict and tension. But it makes it challenging, because the more those stories spread about what we're up to and what that potentially means for your enjoyment of the life that you know and have gotten used to, the more it's going to make you concerned.

I get a lot of angry emails that speak to things that are just not actually going on. And when I respond to them or when staff follow up with them and they get the answer that they're looking for, it often takes a couple of emails before they start to say, “Oh, okay, I get where this is going.” Because they'd been so far down the path of frustration that coming back from that took a little bit of time.

Rae Dawson: They have to take some deep breaths, a little bit of time. Well, I'm glad to hear that you guys are creating the opportunities for people to go and have those conversations, because I find so often nowadays, especially with government procedures, it can be really frustrating to just be like, oh, look at this website, look at this — read this thing or whatever. And having a real life person that you can go and chat with and be like, “I have these concerns. I'm feeling upset about it,” I think is so wonderful.

Dean Murdock: You're absolutely right. I mean, I think the formal structure of a council meeting is not conducive to dialog about what the community's going to look like. And I think people are often uncomfortable coming into an environment where they've got three minutes to speak at a podium to council about an issue that's on the agenda. They're looking for ways to participate differently and have their say. And so it's been so crucial for us to find these new ways of — well, not even new, but different ways of engaging with folks. And for people who can't show up in person, there are webinars in town, virtual town hall sessions. You can also do surveys — that's become a major part of how people participate in the processes. And that gives you a chance to do both qualitative and quantitative input. You can rank your priority around things, tell us how much you like or dislike something, and you can actually tell us in your own words how you feel about it.

Rae Dawson: Surveys are so important. We're always doing surveys at the Martlet and no one ever responds, and it's always so devastating.

Dean Murdock: It is, yes.

Rae Dawson: They seem so boring, but it is one of the best ways to have your voice heard by officials and people around you.

What can students specifically do to ensure their voices are heard throughout this process by mayor and council?

Dean Murdock: Yeah. So, I mean, there's the usual route of civic involvement where you write to your elected official and you can reach us all by email, you can schedule time to meet with us one on one. I know that's probably not appealing to most folks, so to make it a little bit easier we do have these engagement sessions that allow people to to drop in at an open house and hear about some of the work that's going on, participate by survey, or through a webinar.

And if you're really keen, there are committee structures that allow you to get involved and actually have input into some of the bigger policy pieces that we're working on. And those range from economic development and transportation, to housing and our natural areas, parks and trails, community wellbeing. If people are really keen on getting involved, joining one of the committees is actually a great way to be part of the process.

And I'd encourage you to visit the website for committee appointments. We're going through that process very soon, and so if you are interested, I strongly encourage you to send us your resume and why you're interested, and we'd be happy to have you as a member of the committee.

There's also some really interesting stuff going on right now that I think students in particular would be very interested in. An update to our climate plan that's now open for — the draft is now available for consultation. We're doing sessions where people can come and participate to hear about the work that local government is doing in order to reduce our emissions and address the impacts of a changing climate.

Rae Dawson: Amazing. Yeah, we have our climate edition of the Martlet is coming out in November.

Dean Murdock: Okay, good timing.

Rae Dawson: Yeah, very good timing. We'll definitely have to check it out. As for the Shelbourne Valley and Quadra Mackenzie plants, both of these plans claim to be creating more affordable housing for students, as you've mentioned, and community members alike in these areas. Some developments also in that same area, such as the University Heights development, have faced a lot of criticism and backlash for being well above student friendly pricing, not spacious enough for the price points, things like that. I'm curious what Saanich’s plan is to ensure that the spaces that you guys are currently in the process of building remain affordable and fair, especially for students?

Dean Murdock: Yeah. The cost of places to live is probably the biggest topic that I encounter on a daily basis. And when the University Heights rental units came onto the market, I think we were all shocked and disappointed at the high cost for folks to move into those new apartments. You know, there's maybe a market for some folks that are going to get in there, and I fully expect they'll be rented.

But that's certainly not affordable. That's no one's idea of affordable. And, there's been a lot of work done, in our community in Saanich, to try and prioritize non-market, affordable rental projects. In fact, we do something which we call “rapid deployment” that actually skips the line for applications led by a non-market housing provider, if they have a commitment to providing below market rental homes. And in some cases, those new rentals will be rent geared to income. They come with a subsidy from BC Housing, that means you don't pay more than 30 per cent of your income to live there, regardless of what that income looks like. That's not going to be every non-market rental, but that certainly is part of the housing stock that's going to become available on the market, because it is so important that people can find a place that meets their needs and their budget for whatever stage of life they're in. If they're a student, if they're starting out their career, they're raising a family, or they're aging out of the place where they live and they need to downsize, but can't find a place in the area that meets their budget.

Our vision and our priority is to ensure that cost is not a barrier to someone to be able to settle in our community. The rapid deployment work has meant that fully half of the development permits that were issued this year were for non-market, affordable rental projects. That's a huge number of new units being built, homes for people that are not for market resale like a condo, but are going to be long term rental accommodation for someone to pay less than market rent in order to live there. And probably one of the biggest examples where Saanich has gotten quite aggressive, has been the use of the property we own, at the corner of McKenzie and Cedar Hill, which is the old library branch. The good news is it's going to be a library again when it's rebuilt. Two floors, 30,000ft² of space for the library branch. And then on top of that we're building 210 rental units, all of which will be below market, and many of which — most of which will be offered at rent geared to income. That's proximal to the university, it's a great distance to the services and amenities and places of employment so that people can find a great home in a location that is overflowing with amenities and services and good quality public transit, and the university just down the road, where they can settle in the community when otherwise they would have been priced out of the market and not be able to find a home in Saanich. I think that's such a significant step forward, and I think we need to keep doing more of that so that everyone has a place that they can afford in our community.

Rae Dawson: Yes, absolutely. I am very excited to hear that. Finding housing is already such a feat in Victoria, especially for students, and then let alone housing that's close to the university. I know my last semester I was at UVic, I was living near Cook and Pandora, and it's like a 45 minute bus ride up, and I bus everywhere. So to have such close housing that's also here to be affordable is great to hear. I'm also curious, do you know what kind of unit styles are going to be available? Is it going to be mostly one bedroom apartments?

Dean Murdock: Yeah. So for the Nellie McClung project in particular, it's a range of unit types. So there will be some studios and one bedrooms, there will be some two bedrooms, and there will be three bedrooms so that someone who's got a family, who is looking for a place to rent in the community but can't pay market rent, has an option to to be able to settle in this really great part of Saanich.

That was really key in the work we were doing, that we didn't want to create these little parcels in the sky for people to live in. It needed to be a livable space. And so, creating that range and having a large number of family suitable rental units was really key in the redevelopment of that property.

Rae Dawson: And living above the library, so romantic.

Dean Murdock: Yeah. Hard to beat. Yeah, and the grocery store across the street, on one of the best transit routes on the South Island. Sounds like a pretty good place to be able to to live and thrive in the community.

Rae Dawson: Yeah, you're definitely painting your ideal picture. I'll say that for sure. What kind of businesses are you hoping to host in these new hubs that assure walkability for community members? And will there be an emphasis on affordable businesses or local businesses at all, or is it just kind of a free for all?

Dean Murdock: Yeah. So, part of what we want to attract into these hubs, of course, is the services that people rely on. So it's going to be cafes and restaurants and doctor's offices, pharmacies, all of the things that people depend on for enjoyment and their own health and well-being.

But we also have an economic development strategy that says we want to locate local businesses in the areas where people live. And so typically 1980s style community building meant that the homes are over here and the businesses were over there — and I know it's a podcast, so it doesn't make a lot of sense to point, but I think people can guess that I'm saying on one side and the other. The idea now is that you don't want those two things to be pulled apart. You create all kinds of traffic frustration for people when they have to commute in order to get to the workplace or the services that they rely on. So you try and put those things together and our economic development strategy calls for more boutique services and commercial operations around those centers, so that you can actually live, work and shop in the same neighborhood. That it doesn't make sense to have to travel all over the region in order to get to school, to get to work, to get home, to get to childcare. All of those things should be around the same area. And really, that's how you build a dynamic community, making it walkable, accessible, really people friendly, and build in those destinations for folks where they want to spend time, at a café, at a pub, at a park, and a community center, places where people will gather and spend time together.

That's really how you create social connection and ensure social well-being, and ultimately longevity. I mean, we know the more social connections people have in their lives, the healthier they are and the longer they will live. And so we're not only designing a community where you feel good about living there, it actually makes you better off as a human and your long term vitality depends on forging those relationships.

Rae Dawson: Yeah. In a world where we're also on our screens, having a sense of community, not only just in people, but in the spaces around you, having a cafe that's affordable and I can go to and hang out to study or whatever, going to a park I can have my friends there, is so important and vital to people's well-being.

I'm really curious, it's more anecdotal, but do you have a most exciting part — thing that you're most excited about with the new plans or any specific parks or anything like that that you're very jazzed about?

Dean Murdock: Yeah, I mean, I live in Gordon Head, and so what I really like about the Shelbourne Valley plan is that it's going to bring more restaurants, cafés, services to our neighborhood. Places that are walkable, where you're going to find a collection of folks to help support those businesses. Increasingly I hear from business owners or restaurant owners in particular, how difficult it is to make ends meet to keep the doors open. Because costs are high, rents are high, and it takes a lot of customers in order to make ends meet.

When you put those services in the places where people are, where –– particularly where students are looking for a place to get together with their friends, that's going to help support those businesses and ensure that they're successful. And so I look forward to seeing the new cafés and restaurants that are going to pop up in walking distance to places where I live, and places where hopefully more folks are going to live.

One of my favorite coffee shops in Saanich is Township, which is just in Gordon Head. It's a bit of a walk from my place, but it's a place where I generally try and meet people because we're supporting local, it's a great spot to get together with people, and they serve really great coffee. And the café owner is a great, very friendly guy who I love to go in and see. Let's do more of that, that's creating vitality in our community, making sure that it really is a place where people know each other, they care about each other, and they want to spend time together. That sounds pretty good, and I think it's what a lot of people are looking for.

Rae Dawson: I completely agree. So, we're talking a lot about municipal government. We're talking a lot about city planning. We're talking a lot about what it actually means to exist in a space that is geared towards a sense of community. Why is it so important for students and community members to give feedback and to be involved and informed on local city planning that is happening? I feel like the answer, we've kind of touched on it, but to just put it specifically.

Dean Murdock: Yeah, I think that for a lot of people their immediate reaction to planning processes is their eyes glaze over and they have no interest in getting involved. But plans create a vision, and that vision is what your elected officials are going to use to make decisions for the next 5, 10, 15 years, and probably longer than that. Many of the buildings to get approved today will be here 60 years from now. And so, while that may not be particularly important or attractive as something to spend your time on in the short term, your long term interests are absolutely a major part of what we're up to for our planning processes.

So, I so strongly encourage people to be part of the process, to participate in plans and to get involved with your municipal government. If you live in Saanich, come and participate in our processes and sign up to be part of a committee. Come and speak at council, join a group that is advocating to council. This is your future and it's so crucial that the vision we're creating today builds a future where you can see yourself and we're not going to know if you can see yourself in that if you don't show up and raise your voice and provide input on what that looks like.

Rae Dawson: Yeah, for sure. I feel like one thing I noticed as I get older is everyone loves to be a critic, but no one likes to get their hands dirty and do the work. And I've been — I live in James Bay, and there's a really wonderful neighborhood association who I'm involved with semi frequently, who are so great, and it's a lot of older people, and every time me and my partner go and meet up with them, they're just so excited to have young people there. They're like, “Oh, you guys are the future. You guys are the ones who we’re doing this for.” And we often have conversations about “why are young people not more involved in this?” And usually, the answers I like to give is time, money, energy, all those things. But I also think that there is a general sense of apathy amongst young people — at least that's my sense. Because it is so hard for your voice to be heard when you don't have a lot of money, and you're kind of a flighty population, we're here and there. So to hear you guys are considering those things and are encouraging the student population to get involved is really amazing.

On a personal note, what does success in your position as mayor mean to you?

Dean Murdock: Yeah, I think there's probably a lot of things that I'll look back on that went well, or maybe didn't go as well as I'd hoped, but what I think of as success is really setting up the municipality to be successful within the long term. And what I specifically mean about that, is that we've done the hard work to make it easier to get homes built with a focus on affordability, to improve transit service, to improve the infrastructure so that people can get around safely and conveniently. If you're walking, you're biking, you're using a scooter or a mobility assistance or require mobility assistance.

There is a lot that we're going through right now that I think ensures that in the long term, that is just inculcated into the fabric of the community that people just take for granted that all of those things exist. Because there was a time when local governments and your elected officials had to push really hard in order to make that happen. I'll take a lot of satisfaction in telling hearing from my grandkids about something that they're doing now that they just see as a normal part of their daily life. And maybe have a little bit of a smile on my face to think like, yeah, we were successful in making that happen. I'm not someone who's really interested in creating legacies or building monuments to the great work that I've accomplished. It's really about managing through difficult times and managing change in a way that doesn't alienate people, but brings them into the conversation. And I probably won't be able to achieve all of the things I set out to, but I will be satisfied and feel a sense of accomplishment and pride in the work if we were able to steer those changes and ensure that people came along on the journey, rather than being at each other's throats and antagonistic about what that future is going to look like.

Rae Dawson: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, hopefully there's a young listener out there who will pick up the torch that you're leaving behind one day. I think community planning is such a long game. It's such a long game. Nothing happens overnight, let alone in a year, let alone in 10 years. It takes so long for these changes to happen, but it takes the dedication of so many people like yourself, to that vision, as you were saying, to that belief that we can create a community where housing is affordable. We can create a community where people can get around without a car. We can create a community where businesses aren't being priced out of the locations that they're in.

To hear that that's what you're focused on, again it just makes me think of the group project analogy again. Just one big long forever group project, where we're just constantly passing the torch to the next person.

Dean Murdock: Well, and I think fighting through the skepticism and cynicism. Increasingly people take a view that government isn't helping, or that processes are a waste of time. “Nobody's listening, nobody's trying to make my life better.” And I think it takes a lot of work to try and make something happen, but it's also so important that we're giving people something to feel hopeful about, and that the future does offer opportunity for people to live the life that they're after, that they've seen their parents and their grandparents have. That they too have the promise of that kind of quality of life. And I think that's only possible by making the kinds of changes we're putting in place now.

And I'm motivated by that. When I hear a lot of negativity and pessimism about what's going on, that the only way we can offer people hope about the future is by making the kind of structural changes that are required so that they actually have a fighting chance at that future.

Rae Dawson: Absolutely. Well, I'm so glad to hear that. Can you share some anecdotal highlights during your time as mayor of Saanich, on a bit of a lighter note?

Dean Murdock: Yeah, happy to. I think my best day on the job — I get to do a lot of cool stuff. Stuff that I would, if not for being in this role, would probably not even know went on in this community, including throwing the opening shoe and the Horseshoe Club season opener —

Rae Dawson: Oh, you didn't know about the Horseshoe season opener? What were you doing with your time?

Dean Murdock: I know! What was I doing with my life? That's been a lot of fun, but I think that the best day on the job for me was when we opened the new splash pad at Rutledge Park. We did it with students from Cloverdale School and it was just the best day. The water came on, we all ran through the water park, and we were all having a lot of fun splashing around, and I just got to be a goofy guy who was having a great time in the sunshine.

And, the thing that really made me feel so happy about that was that, here was something that wasn't about housing, it wasn't about transportation and road safety. It was about building a place where people could come and spend time and a lot of folks out there who've got kids or are planning to have kids are going to find that it's hard to find family friendly things to do. So to build a splash pad in a park in a great part of the community that's so easily accessed from just about all corners of Saanich, just filled me with joy. And it was such a delight to be able to be part of the culminating efforts of so much work that went into making that happen. And to see people just having such a good time, the pure joy on people's faces just filled me with — really warmed my heart. And I think many years from now, when I'm long past this job, I will think about how much fun we had on that day.

That, and some other examples of being at events where new activities were happening, where people were coming together, music in the park, places where people come and spend time. That's really been one of the best parts of the job. I said in response to why I was interested in politics and local government, that I love community and the idea of how we come together and support each other and organize ourselves has always appealed to me. So to see people come together and spend time together and buy food from a food truck and listen to a local band and dance in the park, that just fills me with such joy. And it makes me so appreciate the great place that we live.

Rae Dawson: Absolutely. I think some of my favorite childhood memories were in a splash park, so —

Dean Murdock: Oh, there you go!

Rae Dawson: Yeah, I'm very glad to hear that that is continuing, yeah. I completely agree, I live right near Beacon Hill Park, and there's always events going on there, which is awesome. But I also love to be inside. *laughter* And me and my partner are always hemming and hawing, like, should we go? Should we go? And every time we go, we're like, I'm so glad I went. That was so not only fun, but instills such a sense of, as you're saying, hope and longevity and just really — yeah, fills my cup having events like that.

Dean Murdock: Me too.

Rae Dawson: Yeah. I'm glad to hear that you're also getting to enjoy them.

Dean Murdock: Thank you, yeah.

Rae Dawson: What are some challenges that you have faced during your time as mayor?

Dean Murdock: Yeah, I think we've canvased the issues we're having around our planning processes, and really trying to address concerns, de-escalate the tension and the conflict, and get people around the table together to talk about the kind of community we want for ourselves and for future generations. And trying to find that common ground, that is increasingly challenging when the volume gets turned up and people get fearful and they get frustrated.

And of course when you're in elected politics, you don't always get your way. And that's all part of it. You got to figure out how to move on to the next major issue and make sure that you've got your ducks in a row for what you're trying to accomplish.

I think a big part of governing is recognizing that compromise is often required in order to get to success. And, sometimes trying to find that compromise, trying to work through the challenges that you're facing can be frustrating. They can wear you down. But often I think you can feel the most reward from landing on a decision that is going to help benefit the most people. So, the frustrations can often also be the most rewarding. And I just try and remind myself that when we're at a late meeting, going through procedural business and just trying to find our way through amendments in order to finally get something approved.

Rae Dawson: I'm sure that's your ideal Friday night.

Dean Murdock: Everybody loves that. Robert's Rules are really just the soundtrack to life.

Rae Dawson: That's what I keep telling people, they don't believe me.

Dean Murdock: They'll be believers one day too.

Rae Dawson: One day, once they get involved in a committee, they'll get it.

Dean Murdock: Yeah, exactly. Exactly, that will change them for the better for sure.

Rae Dawson: Awesome. Well, it's been so, so lovely to chat with you today, thank you.

Dean Murdock: Yeah, likewise Rae. Thank you.

Rae Dawson: Yeah. Thank you so much for coming down to chat with us. Before we get going, how can people find you or get in contact with you?

Dean Murdock: Yeah, the easiest thing is probably mayor@saanich.ca, send me an email. I read all of the emails. I don't have time to respond to everything, but I definitely read everything that comes in. And if you want to get together, you want to chat, you want to have a coffee? We got a lot of great coffee shops around we could go to, including Township. Yeah, send me a note. I would love to get together. And if you're interested in getting involved, please, let's talk about it. Maybe you want to run for council, or you'd like to be the mayor. I so strongly encourage you to reach out, and I will be encouraging — I would never discourage anybody who wanted to be involved in leading in this community, because I think increasingly people find that daunting. And I want to give them every reason to follow their heart and get involved.

Rae Dawson: There's always space for everyone. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on the Nest, and yeah, I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day.

Dean Murdock: Thank you. You too.

*birds chirping*

Rae Dawson: That was the Martlet’s conversation with Mayor Dean Murdock of the District of Saanich. We chatted about the updated Shelbourne Valley and Quadra McKenzie city plans, creating affordable and accessible housing, battling misinformation within municipal government, and the importance of having your voice heard by local councilors. Our latest edition of the Martlet came out online and in print on December 18, 2025 and can be found at martlet.ca or a pub box near you. This marks the end of our publication for the 2025 season, and we’ll be back with our first online edition of the Martlet on January 15, 2026. Happy holidays!

*birds chirping, music*

Rae Dawson: Thanks for tuning into the Nest, a podcast by UVic’s independent newspaper, the Martlet. You can read the latest edition of the Martlet’s publication on martlet.ca or find us on Instagram as @humansofthemartlet, or on X, TikTok and LinkedIn as @theMartlet. Interested in getting involved? Email info@martlet.ca to learn more about volunteer writer, editor and design positions.

*birds chirping, music*

Rae Dawson: And now a note from the Martlet fact-checking team:

At 5:45, Dean Murdock says “There was a royal commission headed by Roy Romanow that looked into the future of health care in Canada, made a number of recommendations, 48 recommendations,” The commission lists 47 recommendations.

At 8:45, Dean Murdock says "We're now in a phase where we're updating that plan, going through public consultation to see if the the aims from ten years ago." The original Shelbourne Valley Action plan was published in 2017, or 8 years ago.

At 16:25, Dean Murdock talks about an organization that "formed in order to oppose a lot of the planning work that's underway, and spreading misinformation and disinformation to stoke fears." The Martlet could not verify which specific organization Murdock is referring to, but did identify a recently registered political party that is opposed to the Quadra McKenzie plan and other proposed developments.

At 24:48, Dean Murdock says there is aAn update to our climate plan that's now open for — the draft is now available for consultation. We're doing sessions where people can come and participate to hear about the work that local government is doing in order to reduce our emissions and address the impacts of a changing climate." At the time of publication, phase 1 engagement of the Saanich Climate Plan is complete.

At 27:53, Dean Murdock says "The rapid deployment work has meant that fully half of the development permits that were issued this year were for non-market, affordable rental projects." The Martlet could not verify this fact.

At 28:21, Dean Murdock says "probably one of the biggest examples where Saanich has gotten quite aggressive, has been the use of the property we own, at the corner of McKenzie and Cedar Hill, which is the old library branch. The good news is it's going to be a library again when it's rebuilt. Two floors, 30,000ft² of space for the library branch. And then on top of that we're building 210 rental units, all of which will be below market, and many of which — most of which will be offered at rent geared to income." The Martlet could not verify these details.

At 30:09, Dean Murdock says "for the Nellie McClung project in particular, it's a range of unit types. So there will be some studios and one bedrooms, there will be some two bedrooms, and there will be three bedrooms." The Martlet could not verify these details.

*birds chirping*